[carrel]

OK, it took some doing, but I got this working. Classic is definitely not intuitive in how things install (plus they changed it all a few times) and I found a bug (I think it is a bug) in Bonsai 5 and a small feature request.

So first off, the bug. If you go into the outline properties and either set or change the file to sync to, then hit "sync", it won't work. You have to save the screen, which closes it, then re-open it and then sync. I understand the desire to make someone _commit_ their change, but it is very non-intuitive to hit sync and have it try to sync to the previous filename, not the one currently shown.

Here's another minor bug. I installed the non-outline PDB files which indicated that I have several outlines, but I only installed one outline. Now Bonsai shows all the previous outlines, but I can only open the one that I installed. That's normal. BUT, it won't let me delete the outlines that don't really exist. It starts the delete dialog, but quietly exists when it can't find the outline, so I have no way to clean that up. (Unless I install the outlines and then delete them.)

Now the feature request. The sync-to-file feature is quite cool. Can you enhance it to simply create the file when the specified file doesn't exist?? My latest pdb is way out of date (2 weeks) with my desktop. I just wanted to tell the desktop to create a copy on the Pre. I didn't want to install the old pdb for fear that I might lose some changes. Luckily I didn't lose any, but this should be an easy feature to add.

OK, here what I had to do to get this running:

You have to do the RomUpdater stuff as directed by MotionApps.

Mount the Pre via USB and install the following files in E:\ClassicApps\PALM\Launcher\Install
Bonsai.prc
BonsaiCategories.pdb
BonsaiKeywords.pdb
BonsaiOutlines.pdb
BonsaiLinks.pdb
your icon file, if you use icons
NO_<outline name>.pdb

Now disconnect USB and run Classic. You should see Bonsai. Run it. At this point, Bonsai is working, but there is no way to see your outline any longer via USB since Classic installed it to internal PalmOS memory which is hidden from USB viewing. Go to the "Outline List". Highlight your outline and hit "Details". Select the option for "Store on Storage Card". (You might as well deselect "Synchronize with Desktop" too, since there ain't no hotsync.)

Now your outline is on the virtual SD card which you can see via USB. Hook up your Pre via USB and run Bonsai on the desktop. Open the outline Properties and select your outline to sync to which will be E:\ClassicApps\PALM\PROGRAMS\Natara\Bonsai\NO_<outline name>.PDB

After that, it should be all easy. As I said above, it would be nice to NOT need to install the original pdb and just have the desktop create one. But I don't know how Bonsai would react if you installed an old BonsaiOutlines.pdb which indicated an outline stored in internal memory but tried to point it to the storage card instead. It might be necessary to install internally and then have Bonsai move it.

Maybe another option to add would be an option to have the desktop overwrite the remote file. That would be a one-time option, not something it saved to do every time.

Oh... here's another bug. When you start a file sync, Bonsai begins by saving the outline. (That's good.) But if Bonsai updates the desktop with something from the Palm, then the outline is modified, but NOT saved when the sync is finished. IMHO the desktop should be saved at the end of a sync no matter what.

ok, that's all. Thanks for doing file sync so the Pre is "usable". Though PLEASE keep thinking about a native Pre app once Palm opens up the SDK.

Dave

[Richard Murphy]

carrel, on Jun 26 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

So first off, the bug. If you go into the outline properties and either set or change the file to sync to, then hit "sync", it won't work...

Ok, we will get that fixed.

carrel, on Jun 26 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

Here's another minor bug. I installed the non-outline PDB files which indicated that I have several outlines, but I only installed one outline. Now Bonsai shows all the previous outlines, but I can only open the one that I installed. That's normal. BUT, it won't let me delete the outlines that don't really exist...

In Bonsai on the Palm from the outline manager, use the View/Refresh menu command. This will update the list and remove any non-existent outlines from the list.

carrel, on Jun 26 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

My latest pdb is way out of date (2 weeks) with my desktop. I just wanted to tell the desktop to create a copy on the Pre...
Maybe another option to add would be an option to have the desktop overwrite the remote file...

I'll think about that but I don't think I want Bonsai to automatically create outline files. The fear is someone may connect another device and might be assigned the same drive letter as the Pre. If you want Bonsai to manual create the pdb file, use the File/Export menu and export to a "Bonsai Palm OS format" (.pdb) file.

carrel, on Jun 26 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

Oh... here's another bug. When you start a file sync, Bonsai begins by saving the outline. (That's good.) But if Bonsai updates the desktop with something from the Palm, then the outline is modified, but NOT saved when the sync is finished. IMHO the desktop should be saved at the end of a sync no matter what.

That is strange. I'll see if I see the same issue here. How are you triggering the file sync to run in this case?

carrel, on Jun 26 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

...Though PLEASE keep thinking about a native Pre app once Palm opens up the SDK.

Yes, we will as well as supporting other platforms. If there was only more time in a day... :)

[Richard Murphy]

While I am sure this thread has inferred the following, I just wanted to point this out...

In order to place a new outline on the Pre with the current beta, do the following (assumes you already installed Bonsai on the Pre):

• Connect your Pre to your PC using a USB cable and select "USB Drive" mode on Pre.
  
• From Bonsai on the PC, use the File/Export command to export a new desktop outline to the x:\ClassicApps\PALM\PROGRAMS\Natara\Bonsai path on the Pre, where x is the drive letter that Windows assigns to the Pre as a "USB mass storage device".
  
• From Bonsai on the Pre, at the Outline Manager screen, select View/Refresh menu.
  
• The new outline should appear in Outline Manager in Bonsai on the Pre.
  
• Optional: Configure the "Sync with file" setting from the outline properties dialog from Bonsai on the PC to keep the desktop and Pre versions of the outlines in sync.

Dave, can you verify that this indeed works with the Pre. Any details that I may have left out? I plan to include this as well as the other details you provided about installing Bonsai in the user manual. Thanks!

Note for future readers of this thread: The exact details will likely change before the release of Bonsai v5, so I would refer to the official user manual once Bonsai v5.0.1 has been released.

[carrel]

Richard Murphy, on Jun 27 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

In Bonsai on the Palm from the outline manager, use the View/Refresh menu command. This will update the list and remove any non-existent outlines from the list.

Ah cool. That works well.

Richard Murphy, on Jun 27 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

I'll think about that but I don't think I want Bonsai to automatically create outline files. The fear is someone may connect another device and might be assigned the same drive letter as the Pre. If you want Bonsai to manual create the pdb file, use the File/Export menu and export to a "Bonsai Palm OS format" (.pdb) file.

OK, file export works. But I still think file sync should create the file when needed. Maybe if the file doesn't exist you could popup a window saying: "Warning: <filename> doesn't exist, should I create it?". Or at least suggest using export.

Speaking of non-existent sync files... Here's a small bug. If the file, or folder the file is in, doesn't exist, there is not enough indication that the sync doesn't do anything. Basically I tried a sync with the Pre disconnected. If I hit the "Sync with file now" button, it just greys for a second and then returns. Only after several tests did I notice the error message in small font at the bottom of the main window. IMO the warning needs to much more in my face; in the current window or a popup. Writing it right below the sync button would work.

Richard Murphy, on Jun 27 2009, 12:54 AM, said:

That is strange. I'll see if I see the same issue here. How are you triggering the file sync to run in this case?

Hmmmm, I can't re-create this. Not sure if I did something differently or it was just brain damage. Sorry ...

[carrel]

Richard Murphy, on Jun 27 2009, 01:37 AM, said:

While I am sure this thread has inferred the following, I just wanted to point this out...

In order to place a new outline on the Pre with the current beta, do the following (assumes you already installed Bonsai on the Pre):

• Connect your Pre to your PC using a USB cable and select "USB Drive" mode on Pre.
  
• From Bonsai on the PC, use the File/Export command to export a new desktop outline to the x:\ClassicApps\PALM\PROGRAMS\Natara\Bonsai path on the Pre, where x is the drive letter that Windows assigns to the Pre as a "USB mass storage device".
  
• From Bonsai on the Pre, at the Outline Manager screen, select View/Refresh menu.
  
• The new outline should appear in Outline Manager in Bonsai on the Pre.
  
• Optional: Configure the "Sync with file" setting from the outline properties dialog from Bonsai on the PC to keep the desktop and Pre versions of the outlines in sync.

Dave, can you verify that this indeed works with the Pre. Any details that I may have left out? I plan to include this as well as the other details you provided about installing Bonsai in the user manual. Thanks!

Note for future readers of this thread: The exact details will likely change before the release of Bonsai v5, so I would refer to the official user manual once Bonsai v5.0.1 has been released.

OK, this didn't work perfectly for me. If I use this method, I get everything EXCEPT for my screen layout on the Palm. Let me suggest an alternative that gets me everything...

To test your method I wiped everything off the Pre and started fresh. I reinstalled the Bonsai.prc and the 4 BonsaiXXX.pdb files in x:\ClassicApps\PALM\Launcher\Install\ and then exported the outline to x:\ClassicApps\PALM\PROGRAMS\Natara\Bonsai\ as indicated above. It works, and when I ran the View/Refresh action, it found my exported outline. Categories, keywords and fonts are all fine, but the screen layout was no longer the way I had previously configured it. I'm not positive if screen layout was the only thing I lost, but it's all I noticed was missing.

So since my old PalmOS outline was in main memory, here's what I did to get everything the way I like it: Install. the prc, 4 BonsaiXXX pdbs, the icon file AND the NO_<outline name>.pdb from my last PalmOS backup into x:\ClassicApps\PALM\Launcher\Install\ then disconnect USB and run Classic. Run Bonsai and do the View/Refresh. Then highlight the outline and hit the "Details" button. Select "Store on Storage Card" to move the outline to the virtual SD card. Now reconnect USB and from the desktop Bonsai, export your outline to x:\ClassicApps\PALM\PROGRAMS\Natara\Bonsai\NO_<outline name>.pdb which should give you the warning that you are overwriting another file.

By doing it that way, I ended up with a completely up-to-date outline as copied from the desktop AND all of my old configuration look and feel. I'm not sure why I needed the old outline pdb file to get my screen layout, but then I was able to overwrite it and I keep the layout. But it works.

Dave

[TomDavey]

Hi Richard and Dave,

Thanks to you guys, I'm delighted to say that file-to-file sync is working great for me with the v5 beta and the Pre. Thanks very much for all these tips and how-to's on file-to-file sync with the Pre. Richard, thanks for making the video demo too -- very helpful!

As for Palm Classic . . . I feel bad for MotionApps at the moment. It has many unhappy paying customers who grew frustrated with the "Blue Screen of Death" lockups for Classic after Palm released the WebOS 1.0.3 update last week. Palm Classic is the lowest rated app in the Apps Catalog at the moment. I'm not sure MotionApps were prepared for 32,000 downloads within three weeks! Now they have 433 predominantly negative reviews. Must be discouraging to the developers.

One oddity with Bonsai in Classic: the 5-way button doesn't move the cursor when editing item titles, although it does move the cursor when editing item notes. On my Treo 750 the 5-way DOES move the cursor in item titles.

Regards all,
Tom Davey

[carrel]

TomDavey, on Jun 28 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

One oddity with Bonsai in Classic: the 5-way button doesn't move the cursor when editing item titles, although it does move the cursor when editing item notes. On my Treo 750 the 5-way DOES move the cursor in item titles.

Did you know that is configurable. Try Menu->Options->Global Settings...->Nav and then you can configure different actions for the 5-way DPAD.

[TomDavey]

carrel, on Jun 28 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

Did you know that is configurable. Try Menu->Options->Global Settings...->Nav and then you can configure different actions for the 5-way DPAD.

Thanks so much! I had completely forgotten that. The key to these migrations is . . . getting things to work exactly the same way you have grown accustomed to them working. :-)

I admit that I can't for the life of me figure out what the second keyboard on Classic is for, the one you get with the "Switch Keyboard" menu option. Compatibility with other Palm devices? I can't find anything about it in the docs. And I can't see what it might supply to Bonsai.

[Richard Murphy]

carrel, on Jun 27 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

OK, this didn't work perfectly for me. If I use this method, I get everything EXCEPT for my screen layout on the Palm...

Yes, that is expected. The sync does not include view configurations and therefore the desktop outline will not contain any data about the handheld views. I think I will have the manual cover either procedure and leave it to the user to decide which way is more appropriate in their environment.

I agree about your additional comments for prompting the user if the outline should be created when in the outline properties dialog. I had the same thought shortly after one of my previous replies.

[carrel]

TomDavey, on Jun 28 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

I admit that I can't for the life of me figure out what the second keyboard on Classic is for, the one you get with the "Switch Keyboard" menu option. Compatibility with other Palm devices? I can't find anything about it in the docs. And I can't see what it might supply to Bonsai.

It allows you to use the keyboard keys instead of hitting the virtual DPAD and other virtual Palm hard buttons. I think it is intended to help run games where you need to rapidly hit keys. I don't think that will help much in Bonsai, but YMMV.

[TomDavey]

carrel, on Jun 29 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

It allows you to use the keyboard keys instead of hitting the virtual DPAD and other virtual Palm hard buttons. I think it is intended to help run games where you need to rapidly hit keys. I don't think that will help much in Bonsai, but YMMV.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply about the alternate keyboard. I think I'm going to follow your advice in the other topic and just turn it off in Classic. Appreciate the explanation of what it's for.

Regards,
Tom Davey

[carrel]

TomDavey, on Jun 30 2009, 12:51 AM, said:

Hi Steve,

Steve??

[TomDavey]

carrel, on Jun 30 2009, 03:38 AM, said:

Steve??

Oops, sorry Dave. I had Steve Carell on my mind I guess. Thanks again for the help.

[Richard Murphy]

Dave, I believe all of the issues you reported in this thread have been resolved in the latest build. I could not reproduce the issue where the outline was "unsaved" after the sync with file operation ran. Since you said you could not reproduce it either, I'll ignore this. Given the way the sync works, I do not believe this could happen. Let me know if you have any other comments about this feature.

[Disciple]

Richard Murphy, on 03 July 2009 - 01:21 PM, said:

Dave, I believe all of the issues you reported in this thread have been resolved...

I keep getting the following error when I try to sync via USB. Can you help?

9/30/2009 9:33:37 PM: Could not rename outline 'C:\Program Files\Natara\Bonsai\Bahamas.OTL' when overwriting with updated version. Error code '0x000000b7'.
9/30/2009 9:33:37 PM: Error updating local outline with changes. Err=0xffffffff
9/30/2009 9:37:32 PM: Could not rename outline 'C:\Program Files\Natara\Bonsai\Bee.OTL' when overwriting with updated version. Error code '0x000000b7'.
9/30/2009 9:37:32 PM: Error updating local outline with changes. Err=0xffffffff