[bnystrom]

Just looking for comments, especially those that have "other devices", on the new Palm Pre.

I must admit, I was not very optimistic about Nova or Palms future, but this device has somewhat changed that. Not so sure how much hope I put into trying to write serious apps in HTML, CSS, and Javascript are though. One thing missing from they keynote at CES today was a lack of games being shown on the device. Can you seriously do type type of games you get on an iPhone with a Web 2.0 aproach to your applications?

Anyway, looking forward to comments from the Natarians. B)

[johnd]

bnystrom, on Jan 8 2009, 03:31 PM, said:

Just looking for comments, especially those that have "other devices", on the new Palm Pre.

I must admit, I was not very optimistic about Nova or Palms future, but this device has somewhat changed that. Not so sure how much hope I put into trying to write serious apps in HTML, CSS, and Javascript are though. One thing missing from they keynote at CES today was a lack of games being shown on the device. Can you seriously do type type of games you get on an iPhone with a Web 2.0 aproach to your applications?

Anyway, looking forward to comments from the Natarians. B)

I like the look of the Pre so far. It looks slick and thin and I like the vertical slide out keyboard.

I just bought my (ugh) TyTN 2 so I'm stuck in WinMo land for a while yet. Plus, I'm going to wait for the GSM version before even considering it.

Since it's a web based OS did you get the sense that it required a constant connection? I.e. won't I be able to sync my mail (or DayNotez database for that matter) on it and be able to access it on the subway?

[Trager]

bnystrom, on Jan 8 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

Just looking for comments, especially those that have "other devices", on the new Palm Pre.

I must admit, I was not very optimistic about Nova or Palms future, but this device has somewhat changed that. Not so sure how much hope I put into trying to write serious apps in HTML, CSS, and Javascript are though. One thing missing from they keynote at CES today was a lack of games being shown on the device. Can you seriously do type type of games you get on an iPhone with a Web 2.0 aproach to your applications?

Anyway, looking forward to comments from the Natarians. B)

It looks really good, but the big question for me is backwards compatibility and/or support from current palm developers. Honestly, the most important of those are you guys and Pimlico software. The only thing that's kept me from going to iPhone has been Bonsai and Daynotez and no good replacement for either (although I keep looking).

[bnystrom]

johnd, on Jan 8 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Since it's a web based OS did you get the sense that it required a constant connection? I.e. won't I be able to sync my mail (or DayNotez database for that matter) on it and be able to access it on the subway?

No. I doubt it requires a connection. It's just that the development of apps is done in a similar manner to things like Google Gadgets, Vista's SideBar, or Apples Widgets. The UI portion is handled via HTML and CSS type coding, while the logic is mainly done in javascript. It most likely doesn't require your "app" to run in browser and code being hosted on a web server someplace (like the iPhone Web apps). Although this makes writing for the device somewhat simple (compared to using something like C++, C# or ObjectiveC), it also appears to me that this greatly limits the types of things that can be accomplished.

As I heard one iPhone dev say about the Pre "guess you won't be seeing X-Plane on that platform".

[bnystrom]

Trager, on Jan 8 2009, 06:28 PM, said:

It looks really good, but the big question for me is backwards compatibility and/or support from current palm developers. Honestly, the most important of those are you guys and Pimlico software. The only thing that's kept me from going to iPhone has been Bonsai and Daynotez and no good replacement for either (although I keep looking).

I saw no mention of the device running Palm OS apps. I suppose it will be possible with something similar to StypeTap, but I doubt that running Palm OS apps is going to be anything short of "second class citizens". You'll have little more advantage of running Palm OS apps on the Pre than you would running them on, say, Windows Mobile via Style Tap. Not exactly the experience I would want.

[bnystrom]

Matt Miller (aka PalmSolo) had some interesting comments similar to mine regarding running Palm OS 5 apps up on ZDNet:

"What happens now with Palm OS 5 apps?" <link>

Engadget actually has some "hands on" after the keynote with good questions asked of Palm and 2 videos of them playing with the device. Engadget Plays with the Palm Pre at CES

[Penquin]

This new WebOS looks really cool.

My main concern is the lack of Natara Bonsai support since it is essential for my work... I could not live without my bonsai "Peripheral brain" ;-)
I hope there a will be a Palm emulator that will support natara bonsai, including synchronisation with Natara Bonsai for Desktop....

Or even better, a new version of Bonsai for WebOS?

[Trager]

Sorry, Bryan, I guess I wasn't quite clear. For my purposes, either the Pre needs Palm OS application support OR the WebOS SDK has to readily support porting from the Palm SDK. If Palm made it relatively painless for you to port Bonsai and Daynotez over to WebOS, that would make purchasing the Pre a no-brainer for me.

[bnystrom]

Trager, on Jan 9 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

Sorry, Bryan, I guess I wasn't quite clear. For my purposes, either the Pre needs Palm OS application support OR the WebOS SDK has to readily support porting from the Palm SDK. If Palm made it relatively painless for you to port Bonsai and Daynotez over to WebOS, that would make purchasing the Pre a no-brainer for me.

Yeah. I hear ya. But I really don't think there's much hope of just porting a product written in C/C++ to javascript and HTML. Porting from platform to platform is easiest done if the same development language is at least available. I think it would be a total re-write for any non-trivial Palm OS products.

(Let me put it this way... "Porting" Dnz or Bonsai to either iPhone or RIM is a much easier task. But there is nothing wrong with re-thinking and re-writing a similar functioning product for the Pre)

[Trager]

bnystrom, on Jan 9 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

Yeah. I hear ya. But I really don't think there's much hope of just porting a product written in C/C++ to javascript and HTML. Porting from platform to platform is easiest done if the same development language is at least available. I think it would be a total re-write for any non-trivial Palm OS products.

(Let me put it this way... "Porting" Dnz or Bonsai to either iPhone or RIM is a much easier task. But there is nothing wrong with re-thinking and re-writing a similar functioning product for the Pre)

Yeah, I understand. I did see something in one of the many discussions about the Pre SDK that they were going to have some kind of tools to help do so, but I sure don't understand how that'd work (unless they are supporting some a more useful language than Jscript/HTML somewhere along the line). What I'm more concerned about is whether or not WebOS is going to support anything like the sync conduits that we've all gotten used to, and that desktop/smartphone programs like Daynotez and Bonsai require. AFAIK, that's one of the bigger drawbacks to the iPhone software development process, one would hope that Palm doesnt make the same mistake.

[bnystrom]

My "reading" of the situation with the Palm Pre is "desktop sync is dead".

[johnd]

bnystrom, on Jan 9 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

My "reading" of the situation with the Palm Pre is "desktop sync is dead".

I'm certainly not a fan of this attitude. While I do like having some data that's shareable between computers (I use evernote) I also don't want to be stuck in a situation where I am beholden to someone else (or having a connection to the internet) to sync or access my data. I like to be in control of where it is and when it's backed up, etc. I don't want to be forced to upgrade to a version I don't want because someone has made changes on the server. A lot of the info I have stored in evernote is also in daynotez to hopefully prevent my being trapped by this.

There have been too many stories of people losing all their photos or blog entries (as it appears many Livejournal users may be soon) because of a change in policy or because the company goes out of business. In the past I've been leery of even using programs that store store data in a proprietary format. What if the company stops updating the program and the last version won't run on the latest version of Windows? Fortunately Microsoft, even with all their faults, has understood the necessity of making their OS's backwards compatible.

The one of the big reasons I went with a WinMo device rather than an iPhone was that the iPhone didn't offer desktop sync'ing of data. (I also didn't like how Apple controls which applications are available for download and which aren't, etc. but that's another matter.)

[drawkcab]

johnd, on Jan 10 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

I'm certainly not a fan of this attitude. While I do like having some data that's shareable between computers (I use evernote) I also don't want to be stuck in a situation where I am beholden to someone else (or having a connection to the internet) to sync or access my data.

I agree. I am impressed with the Pre and delighted to see Palm come out with something truly innovative compared with their previous products. However, I really like being able to work with desktop companion apps - which is one of the reasons I like Natara apps so much. It is discouraging to see more articles on the lack of built in support for older Palm apps, such as this article from computerworld, in addition to the loss of the desktop sync ability.

I have been considering other platforms for years, but it is so handy to take notes in DayNotez using my ancient Tungsten T and a foldable keyboard that I keep holding off. I realized in retrospect that I have been hoping for a Palm comeback to a large extent so that I could keep using my current palm apps.

Todd

[solarplexus]

I think The WebOS is exactly where Palm should have gone. It really goes back to Palm's roots. It places productivity over everything else. And to me, thats what the whole device is all about: being productive. Sure its fun to play games or watch videos....but I can get an ipod Touch for that...... I need my PDA/phone to just work.

Daynotez is one of the most important applications on my Palm.
I am prepared to write a check for the Pre version if it comes out.
I hope you are able to come up with something on the new platform. Your products are awesome!

[Penquin]

bnystrom, on Jan 10 2009, 03:54 AM, said:

My "reading" of the situation with the Palm Pre is "desktop sync is dead".

I think that the concept of "clound computing" IS the future. I would love to have access to my natara bonsai database from the internet, from my pc, and from my phone/PDA and have some kind of automatic synchronisation like with evernote...

[johnd]

Penquin, on Jan 14 2009, 12:35 PM, said:

I think that the concept of "clound computing" IS the future. I would love to have access to my natara bonsai database from the internet, from my pc, and from my phone/PDA and have some kind of automatic synchronisation like with evernote...

I would love to have access to my data on the internet too but I don't want that to be the ONLY way I can back up / sync / access my data. There are rumblings that ISPs are going to jack up their prices and / or reduce the bandwidth cap and I won't want to get stuck.

[wolfshades]

My guess is that this is a last gasp effort to save Palm, and it will fail. I give it two years, max.

People are spoiled by the idea of multi-function devices like Blackberry and iPhone that can host all kinds of third party apps. iPhone in particular is attractive to people who like the idea of having 16 gigs of space available for apps and music. Palm capped theirs at 8 gigs and didn't provide for SD slots.

I've had a PalmPilot since they first came out, but.....I think their day is done.

[Trager]

wolfshades, on Feb 2 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

My guess is that this is a last gasp effort to save Palm, and it will fail. I give it two years, max.

People are spoiled by the idea of multi-function devices like Blackberry and iPhone that can host all kinds of third party apps. iPhone in particular is attractive to people who like the idea of having 16 gigs of space available for apps and music. Palm capped theirs at 8 gigs and didn't provide for SD slots.

I've had a PalmPilot since they first came out, but.....I think their day is done.

It's really all going to comedown tot he software that's available for the Pre. If they can get good buy-in and get good applications, it'll at least do okay. If nobody writes apps, it'll never get off the ground. I resisted going iPhone for a long time because the software really wasn't up to par with what I used on my Centro (and a lot of it still isn't, sadly). I finally gave in because almost no one is still releasing new software for the Centro, and because my sync conduit on my Mac became sufficiently borked that it was causing more trouble than the sync was worth. Cloud apps take care of the second issue (and it sounds like the Pre will be very friendly towards those kind of applications), and there's no question that a lot of people are currently writing software for the iPhone (even if a lot of it is dreck).

[Jim1th]

I've been an avid Bonsia user for years, always carrying around some kind of Palm device, even if I also had to carry a smartphone that didn't run Bonsai. My last phone was a Blackberry, and I also carried a Tungsten T5 primarily for Bonsai. However, I've finally grown tired of carrying around two devices, and last month reluctantly got a Palm Centro. The Centro just isn't working for me (tiny screen, out-dated operating system.) So, I'm getting either an iPhone or a Palm Pre. My choice will depend on which one of these platforms will be the first to get Bonsai. Can you offer any advice?

Thanks for a truly indispensable app!

Jim

bnystrom, on Jan 8 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

Just looking for comments, especially those that have "other devices", on the new Palm Pre.

I must admit, I was not very optimistic about Nova or Palms future, but this device has somewhat changed that. Not so sure how much hope I put into trying to write serious apps in HTML, CSS, and Javascript are though. One thing missing from they keynote at CES today was a lack of games being shown on the device. Can you seriously do type type of games you get on an iPhone with a Web 2.0 aproach to your applications?

Anyway, looking forward to comments from the Natarians. B)

[bnystrom]

Jim1th, on May 21 2009, 10:36 PM, said:

So, I'm getting either an iPhone or a Palm Pre. My choice will depend on which one of these platforms will be the first to get Bonsai. Can you offer any advice?

Thanks for a truly indispensable app!

Jim

I can't really say if Bonsai will show up on one, both or neither of these two devices... or even when. I think you have a good idea of what the iPhone is like, and it would probably be a good idea to wait until after the Pre is released to start to hear 1st hand user experience on what its pros and cons are, and then compare the two devices.

I can say that we (Natara) have had the hardware for for the iPhone platform now for several months and are not privy to any Palm hardware, and probalby won't for quite some time. We are also taking a "wait and see" approach to the Pre. Palm is already starting to show its "colors" towards the developer community (google recent incidences of Palm Inc toward the "PreDevCamps".). For those of us familiar with Palm and have worked with them in the past from a developer stand point, it appears like business as usual with them. Like I said, we are interested in the potential of the Pre, but a lot of it depends on how Palm and Sprint deal with the community and the adoption rate of the device.