[TomFord]

Hi All,

I'm curious how many people on this list use Bonsai for GTD??

Thanks,
Tom

[Fnord]

I'm a recent convert, or wannabe, to GTD. I'm using Bonsai for my implementation, and I'm curious how others are doing so.. especially with the addition of keywords, which weren't present for some of the earlier discussions I found here.

I use a single list, with high level branches for Inbox, Actions, Waiting For and Projects. I use categories for Office and Home, and Accomplished, the latter since at review time it's useful to remember what things I've done in the past year at work!

I use keywords to supply the context for items, Calls, Online, Computer and so forth. And I've defined a number of filters to bring up the items appropriate for a given context.

What I haven't found to my satisifaction is how to do the 'Next Action' type view or filter. Ideally, I'd like to find in Bonsai an option to show 'only the first n uncompleted items' at a given level in the hierarchy. This might need some options to recurse on down through those items and decide whether to show lower levels as well, or to flatten the whole view.

In lieu of anything else, I'm thinking of just creating a new keyword for next action, and manually setting it as I complete tasks. I'm sure this would work.. but.. I'm lazy, and prone to errors. I'd prefer to automate the task if possible. Does anyone know of a a way of doing this automatically in the current product, or are aware of plans to add such functionality to Bonsai in the future?

Thanks!

[StuGib]

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Originally posted by: Fnord
I'm a recent convert, or wannabe, to GTD. I'm using Bonsai for my implementation, and I'm curious how others are doing so..

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I've been through so many combinations of using Bonsai (and other apps) to do GTD and have now settled on a system I like, which I'm happy to describe....

Firstly, I use one Bonsai list and Datebk5. Datebk5 displays ONLY dated todos (and of course my appointments), but ALL todos are in the Bonsai list and linked to the todo database automatically. If I enter new dated todos in Datebk5 then I make sure I import them into my list (I'd also like that automated!) - that's the benefit of using one list - the Import function will only show the unimported todos.

There's several things I want to manage with tasks - where they can be done (context), when or how soon they have to be done, what project area (not GTD 'project' but responsibilities/long term project) they belong to and what GTD project a next action belongs to. Bonsai gives you lots of tools to use, e.g. outline level, categories, priorities, dates, contacts, notes and keywords. I set about mapping what I wanted to manage to the tools available in Bonsai.

My 'mapping' is as follows:

[*]Category = context (currently: @Office, @Home, @Shops, @Phone, @Computer, WaitingFor, Tickler, Deadline.

[*]Item text+Note = I use the PigPog method (http://tinyurl.com/6dxyx) which I find neater than heirarchies, so I put the project outcome, support notes and future actions in the note. The item text shows the next action. When an action is complete, change the item text and category for the next item.

[*]Outline level = how soon they have to be done. I have 'Due this week', 'Make progress on this week', 'Start soon/due soon', 'Other actions/Anytime' and 'Someday/Maybe' as my top-level items. All projects/actions are on level 2 of the outline. If projects/actions have deadlines (as opposed to the action having to be done on a particular date) then I give them a child item at level 3, give it the Deadline category and set the due date

[*]Keywords = project area/responsibilities (e.g. moving house, new job, staff council)

[*]Due Date = date for dated todos or deadlines ONLY.

[*]Contact = agenda - I type in the name of the person I need to speak to, or meeting names, or specific locations for this task.

New items just get noted as new Unfiled items at the bottom of the list, then categorised, keyworded and put in the right timeframe (this week, soon, anytime, someday/maybe etc) when I process the new items (I also use Daynotez to record new items/events during the day).


I've also got a set of filters to help check my progress:

[*]Action filters - Work, Home, Shops/Car - show undated todos only with categories (contexts) that can be done in those locations (so Work includes @Office, @Computer, @Phone)

[*]A project filter - show all projects (multi-step outcomes). There's a couple of ways you can highlight a project as separate from single next actions. I set projects to task type AND use a standard bit of text including 'Project Outcome:' in the note. My filter shows all items with this text in the note. Sounds more complex than it is!

[*]Project Area filters - e.g. ^Moving House, ^New Job, which shows me all tasks with a matching keyword for that area. This gives me an overview of everything that has to be done, when.

[*]Weekly review filters - show completed tasks, due soon tasks, items without keywords, non-actionable items (someday/maybe, ticklers, waiting for).

[*]Agendas - show only items with something in the contact field.

Let me know any comments or if anything's not clear or you need more details on program settings etc. I'd post a screenshot if I could. It probably sounds quite complex when written down but it's something I've settled on after trying lots of other ways and this seems to be fairly low maintenance and meets my needs quite well. The most important thing I've found, and still haven't mastered, is to stick with something long enough to develop habits (particularly weekly reviews, which do make a huge difference to the success of your 'system').

Stuart

[meebee]

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Originally posted by: StuGib

Quote

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Originally posted by: Fnord
I'm a recent convert, or wannabe, to GTD. I'm using Bonsai for my implementation, and I'm curious how others are doing so..

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..snip..

Let me know any comments or if anything's not clear or you need more details on program settings etc. I'd post a screenshot if I could.

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Thanks Stuart. It is slightly confusing...I'd love to see a screenshot if you could attach one.

Your use of the outline structure according to time-sensitivity is an interesting one. I am going to think about this one a little bit longer since I'm reluctant to change a sytem that semi-works. I'm not into using a flavor-of-the-week, but yours sounds like it might be pretty good.

[StuGib]

Hi,

Ok, here you go, hope this works. Click on the links to see the full sized image.

First one shows my @Work action list - everything that can be done at work: @Work actions:
http://i26.photobuck.../Workfilter.jpg"> I

[*]First column is the category icon, showing my contexts (showing various office, computer, phone) actions that can be done at work.

[*]Second column shows the next action text. For single next actions these are todo types, with the action text. For multi-action projects they are task types, have my project template text in the note (see note pane), and the next action as the item text. The top-level outline items are the timeframe (due/soon/whenever). Next actions appear at level 2.

[*]The due date and note columns are obvious

[*]The contact column shows items which relate to particular people. This helps form my Agenda view.

[*]The keyword icon column shows 'project areas'. I'm currently leaving my current job and moving house, so you can see two of these project areas in the keyword column.

[*]The link column is just to double check all todos are linked - they do this automatically anyway.

This is my 'doing view' and I always view my outline at level 2 only when doing tasks. I also have an equivalent @Home/@Shops doing filters, which show undated items with relevant contexts(categories).

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I also regularly review my projects list to make sure projects are progressing. Projects list:

This filter looks for items with '__PROJECT OUTCOME__' in the note, so it's important to mark up projects (as opposed to single next actions) accordingly. I use ShortKeys to insert my project template text when I type '.pr'

It's normally no problem remembering what the project aim was if only viewing a 'next action', but if you forget why you were doing something then you only have to check the note.

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I'll skip my weekly review filters (due soon, completed, no keywords, non-actionable), but will cover my 'project area' filters. As I mentioned I'm moving house at the moment, so I need to check everything to do with moving house from time to time (whatever context the next action belongs to). This filter checks for the relevant keywords: House Move ('project area'):

One thing to point out here is the only level 3 items I use, namely deadlines/reminders. You can see I'm waiting for a buyers survey to be done. This doesn't have to be done ON a specific date so is undated and will show up in the relevant action filters, but I do want to be reminded that it should be done BY a particular date, so I put this as a child item.

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Other random stuff:

[*]All my actions are in one list as shown, but I do have other outlines in my @GTD category (see outline manager on left), which are support materials or plans for bigger projects (e.g. in the @Work filter above I had an action to copy stuff off my PC - I have the items to copy in another outline, though I could have just put this in the note).

[*]It's important to keep doing your weekly reviews to put everything in the right timeframe (top-level outline section)

[*]Don't forget the dated items - they're not shown in the action filters above as only undated items are shown. Dated items are shown in Datebk5.

[*]Consider your collection process. I use Daynotez to keep a daily log of new, urgent actions to be done that day, events, and new actions/projects to process. At the end of the day these are exported to a Todo and then imported to the bottom of Bonsai to be processed (I collapse to level 1 when I do this to make it easier to drop them in the right timeframe). But one of the most important 'Aha' moments I've had reading various GTD groups is to separate out collection and processing - then you can make sure you've put the right keywords/categories/project template text etc when you've got the time to do so.

Hope that helps. Again, it probably looks complicated and it's something that's personal to my set of circumstances, but it's something I've built up over the last year after experimenting with different systems and applications and identifying the shortcomings in them. The important thing is to develop the habits to make it work.

Good luck

Stuart

[George]

That's fantastic. Looks like you are using the icons as a very effective visual cue.

Are you going to share your layout with the GTD Yahoo group?

[StuGib]

Hi George,

Thanks. I'm a long-term subscriber to the GTD_Palm group and thought about posting my system up there but (a) have set up countless systems before and have always changed it in the past, and (B) never got round to it once I'd settled on this system. It was this thread that prompted me to put it down in writing, seeing as people are likely to be interested in a Bonsai solution anyway, but I'll post a link to this thread on the GTD group later.

Stuart

[msquare]

I've been using GTD on Bonsai for about 6 months. I have a one master outline with eveything on it. I use filters to give me my action lists. I use task type to determine if it is a "focus area" (Simple), "project" (Task), or a todo item (ToDo).

The category field is used to determine which action list the task is assigned to: e.g. !calls, !errands, !computer. Most of my filters are by category as flat displayed items.

For tickler items the start date of the task is the date I want the item to "show up". I then have a category called @tickler with a filter for an @tickler starting in 40 days. This gets looked at during my weekly review.

My @project filter is any "task" item.

Although David Allen says that day specific items should only be on a calendar. I place them in Bonsai as well with a link to the calendar. I do this because during the weekly review, I can see all related todo items regardless of being date specific.

This is my first ever post so if it was too wordy or not follow proper netiquette please let me know.

[Elisa]

Stuart-
Thank you for sharing this information. I've been trialing Bonsai for the past week and I've been working at using GTD on the basic palm platform for several years -- what a difference with Bonsai. I set up Bonsai using your method and it is working very well for me. I was spared a lot of trial and error.

One are I'm struggling with is completed items. How do you handle completed items? Is there an easy way to export completed items into a new outline? I'd like to have a record of what I've completed and not just purge the items.

Thanks,
Elisa

[ndench]

Hi Elisa

I guess you could create a filter that shows just completed items, and then copy/move them into a new outline. You can also do Outline > Delete Completed on the originals, if you want, depending on how you decide to handle things like linked to-dos. Not ideal, but it should work.

Personally, I maintain a (non-synched) Completed Projects outline. When I have a project that I feel has come to completion (remember, DA says you never finish a project, you just decide at some point that you've done enough of it) I cut and paste the whole branch for that project and move it into the Completed Projects outline during my next weekly review.

[StuGib]

Hi Elisa,

Glad you got some use out of my explanation.

In my system I process completed items quite carefully each week. When I view the Completed Actions filter an action could be completed because:

A) it's a single action that I've done.
B) I've done the next action for a project and I've ticked off the linked todo (remember projects are Bonsai task types, and with the PigPog method of just replacing the item text with the next action then the project tends to jump from 0% to 100% if you tick off the linked todo) [note: in fact if it's linked it seems to be the only two states it can be in - even if I adjust the task progress to 50%) it get's overwritten with 0% next time I sync)

So for each item I decide
A) whether just to delete it (mostly trivial single next actions that I don't care about)
B) to archive it (I archive it to Daynotez under a 'Completed Todos' category, including all the notes, but Neal's suggestion is also good)
C) if it's a project, to check if it's complete or if it needs a new next action typing into the item text, and it's progress re-setting (though I check the projects list more than just weekly when I check completed actions)

My weekly reviews therefore usually do the completed items check on the Palm (for Daynotez export), then sync and do the other steps on the desktop.

Stuart

[BramwellJC]

When I cut or copy a branch it loses its completed status (ie. loses 100% complete, plus the completion date). Is there someway to maintain that status and date. I'd like to be able to cut the completed stuff out, but don't want to lose the date especially???

[George]

There's a good chance you are using the Cut command and not the Cut Branch command. All of the item attributes are preserved when using the 'Branch' set of edit commands.

ps. please post to the appropriate forum section (was this handheld or desktop?), and probably start a new thread for this type of question.

[mashby]

Fantastic thread! I'm reading this thread over and over as I try to get my head around what you're doing. I haven't used filters much, for example, so it's taking a little time for all of this to sink in. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

The only thing I'm disappointed with is the fact that the images are no longer available. It appears that the service you were using to host them is no longer around. Any chance you could post them again, or PM, or E-mail them to me?

If I had the images, I think things would be a lot clearer.

Thanks again for a wonderfully detailed response to this thread.

[StuGib]

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Originally posted by: mashby
The only thing I'm disappointed with is the fact that the images are no longer available. It appears that the service you were using to host them is no longer around. Any chance you could post them again, or PM, or E-mail them to me?

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Hi Michael,

Yes, you're right, the image hosting service I used seems to have crash & burned and taken my images with it i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif

I've reposted similar images that I sent to someone else who found this thread in the archives. They're not the originals but I tried to recreate them the best I could to support the text. If there's some discrepancies then please ask.

Of course, all this was done back in the days of Bonsai 3. With the new Bonsai 4 features I've jigged things round a bit. I'll post them too if you're interested?

Stuart

[mashby]

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Originally posted by: StuGibOf course, all this was done back in the days of Bonsai 3. With the new Bonsai 4 features I've jigged things round a bit. I'll post them too if you're interested?

Stuart

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Most definitely! I'm running the beta of 4 right now and still playing with it, so seeing what you've done thus far would be a nice head start. Oh and thank you for updating your images. That helps a lot.

[bnystrom]

Yes! Please do. (perhaps start another thread). i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

(Stu: for a post like this which seem to have mass appeal I would be willing to host the pics for you if you want.)

[StuGib]

Bonsai v4 implementation is in this thread.